From Home to Supportive Housing: A Compassionate Approach

What if you could ensure a smooth transition for a loved one from their longtime home to supportive housing, all while maintaining their dignity and quality of life? Join us as we sit down with Daphne Davis from Pinnacle Senior Placements, who brings 25 years of expertise to this heartfelt conversation. Daphne sheds light on the emotional and logistical hurdles families face during downsizing, emphasizing the necessity of understanding each individual's core values, health needs, and personal preferences. Learn the difference between independent placement agencies and franchises, and discover why a hands-on, personalized approach makes all the difference.

Planning for aging and long-term care can be overwhelming, especially when medical emergencies arise. We stress the importance of open, proactive family discussions to avoid emotional and logistical challenges later. Personal stories illustrate how early conversations can ease difficult decisions, particularly when multiple siblings are involved. Daphne also explores the varying experiences family members might have with an aging parent, especially when cognitive issues are present, and how acknowledging these differences can lead to improved care.

Navigating the intricacies of Medicaid, senior housing, and financial planning is crucial for a secure future. Daphne shares valuable insights on ethical practices in elder care, the differences between private pay and Medicaid clients, and the importance of financial preparedness. From securing Medicaid beds to having a power of attorney, we cover all the essential steps to ensure seniors can age with dignity. We also touch on the emotional aspects of downsizing and the various services available to assist seniors and their families during these transitions, ensuring they can embrace aging with grace and support.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hello listeners and viewers, this is episode 44 of Getting your Edge how to Right-Size your Home and Life podcast. I'm your co-host, dennis Day, from the amazing Edge Group team and EXP Realty. We are the downsizing experts where we say less house, more home. Discover downsizing with us. And I'm here with my beautiful co-host and Edge Group team leader, judy Gratton.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Welcome, judy Well thank you, dennis, thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 0:35

I hear you've been doing a little bit downsizing yourself. How'd the garage sale go last week? Eh, a lot of work, little pay.

Speaker 2: 0:44

I'm like no, it's not worth what I paid. But I am downsizing, I am getting rid of things.

Speaker 1: 0:51

Okay, today we have a fantastic show for you. Today Our guest is Daphne Davis from Pinnacle Senior Placements. She's here to discuss the difficult and often emotional topic of how, when and where to put yourself or a family member when it's time to leave that family home and find more supportive housing. Welcome Daphne. Give us a little information about yourself and how you help people find communities of care.

Speaker 3: 1:24

Well, hello, hello and good morning. It's my first time here and I'm honored to be able to be a part of your podcast and sharing information with all of your listeners. Pinnacle Senior Placements has been in existence since 2015, but I have been doing placements and helping families for 25 years and I am still loving my job and talking to our families and our seniors and trying to navigate this world of how do I continue my life with grace and dignity and joy and purpose when I can't stay at home any longer by myself. And it can be a very emotional journey, no doubt about it.

Speaker 2: 2:03

Dennis Daphne, you are an independent contractor, correct? Yes, I am. I did not realize that there are people who are part of franchises, and what's the difference there?

Speaker 3: 2:15

So let me give you a broad overview of who placement agencies are. We are nationwide very strong in Western Washington Well, I'll say all of Washington, but certainly Western Washington and the difference between having a privately held company such as mine I am the owner of this company and a franchise is that sometimes they can be limited to geography in a franchise, because they have given zip codes or areas. Sometimes they can be limited to what companies I can introduce a family to. Companies I can introduce a family to, they can introduce a family to, because you usually have to have contracts with given care communities. As an independent owner I don't have those limitations. So I am thrilled to always be able to say you know what, if you drive past someplace on a daily basis and it would be easy for you to stop in and see mom or dad, let's check it out, let's see if it meets your highest values. So those are some of the broad differences.

Speaker 3: 3:13

But for Pinnacle Senior Placements we are very hands on. We're a company that you don't just call up and I give you a list of names. You don't just go on your merry way and try and figure out what questions I'm supposed to ask, what things are important. I'm here and as well as my team, to walk side by side with you that we start with actually meeting you. So, whether that be you as the senior who is moving or downsizing, or you being the child or guardian or power of attorney, we like to meet all together so that everyone gathers the information at the same time in terms of what are your options Now? How do we decide what are the highest values of options? And that comes through conversation. So the first time that we meet is usually about an hour to an hour and a half and we gather some general information about who you are as a person. We'll gather some information about your health care and whatnot, but that's where we start the process meet with people.

Speaker 2: 4:29

So, daphne, what are some of the important questions in your mind when you first meet with a family or the person individually? What is going to help you figure out what direction you're headed?

Speaker 3: 4:37

So, generally, I'll start with just getting some basic idea of who this person is. Where are you from the core of someone? I can talk about symptoms of diseases, I can talk about challenges of your physical body all day long, but the most important things are who are you as a person? What did you do for a living, what are your hobbies, what are your aspirations, what's still on your bucket list to do? And so we spend some time just getting to know each other and after that then we start weeding that down and through that conversation, hopefully I'm able to pick up on some things that are coming forward as your highest values.

Speaker 3: 5:15

So I encourage everyone to think about what are the things that, if I do choose to downsize and move to a smaller community, what are the things that are most important for me to have? And I hear things like I need to be able to go outside for a walk. I'll hear things like I would like to continue to have my privacy and not be badgered that's a strong word but badgered to join an event or a happening or you know, whatever's going on on that given calendar day that I want to have an option. Some people say exactly the opposite. That says you know, I would love to get involved, but I need a little encouragement. Some people will tell me that just not having to walk outside and get my mail in the rain is really important to me. So it's a gambit of things. Some people will say you know what? What's most important right now, because of our circumstances, is I need to pay attention to my budget, or it might be I really want to stay close to my church or synagogue, or I want to be close to my church or synagogue, or I want to be close to my family. So, as the person who's moving, I encourage you to really start thinking about what is most important to me in a daily routine. Then we can get into some of the more health-oriented questions, things that will help us. And because let me interject my highest value is that my clients don't move again.

Speaker 3: 6:48

Moving is hard, physically hard, emotionally hard, challenging for families to coordinate schedules, and so I, as the outsider looking in, I get to see how do we live today and still plan for tomorrow, and so that's where the health questions start coming in. So sometimes I feel like I'm a little invasive in people's personal life, but it's important so that we can plan accordingly, and these are the things that don't always get looked at. If you are challenged with having to find some options, many people don't think about what are the logistics of tomorrow. If my mom's a fall risk today, or my dad's, you know, losing a little bit of cognition, how can I plan tomorrow so I don't have to move them again? These are all things for people to be thinking about and I help guide that conversation.

Speaker 3: 7:47

One of the most important things, as you're choosing to work with someone or not, is will they pay attention to the highest values of the family as well as the elder? Well as the elder, because those go together. What are the highest values of both entities? Because every child in a family to mom and dad has a different relationship and a different perspective of what mom and dad want or need. Mom and dad have a different perspective of what they think they want or need, and so someone as a third party and this is what I really encourage people to consider is have a third party work with you, help you navigate this. Emotional conversations, help you think about things that you may never have thought about before the simplicity of carrying a laundry basket. Do we have the laundry facilities down the hall, or do we want a washer dryer in the unit, the apartment that people are living in?

Speaker 2: 8:44

What about pets? A lot of people have pets. What happens there?

Speaker 3: 8:49

Most communities are pet friendly. If we're looking at assisted living and that's what I'm generally talking about independent living assisted living and later in the conversation we can go through the differences there but generally they're all pet friendly and there's usually an assessorial fee. Usually it's a monthly fee, sometimes it's a one-time upfront fee and usually the people have to be able to care for their pet appropriately taking them out for walks, feeding and cleaning up after them. Sometimes there is a weight limit to a pet, so that's something to pay attention to, but there's options to being able to have your pet with you.

Speaker 2: 9:33

Well, that's good. That's very good to hear so from a we run into. I was just thinking of a couple that I helped a few years back. I don't, dennis, I don't know if you were involved in that. It was clear up in Burlington.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:49

I remember.

Speaker 2: 9:51

That they had terminal illness and they were so accepting of what was going to happen and all they wanted to do was get back to Minnesota, where they came from and their kids were, and so they did a garage. It was one of the most peaceful transactions I've ever done. There was very little angst. I would say. They knew what they were doing, they accepted what they were doing. That does not happen all the time. You know I would find it really hard to accept. I still find it hard to accept limitations, so I don't see why I can't go roller skating. It's probably not a good idea.

Speaker 3: 10:44

You know, you bring up a really good point, and there are generally two different ways of embarking on this journey called life, and as our chapters in life change and we come closer to the end of our life, or we have limitations placed on us, or we have limitations placed on us. People have the choice of doing this with grace and dignity and embracing the next chapter of life with wonderment, or we can do it kicking and screaming and living for yesterday. Those are basically the two options dreaming about yesterday or planning for tomorrow. And so that's a conversation that I have to have a lot, and many times within a family dynamics. When I'm meeting with a family, I need I can discern the possibility of getting off topic, and so I ask for permission to set some some boundaries or some litmus tests of is this germane to our conversation and our goals today, and so that's another role that I can play in keeping us all focused on the same thing. When a family has been clear and thoughtful about what they want to do in their next chapters of life, it is truly a gift to everyone, and most often, most often, what families do is avoid this elephant in the room called aging, and we're not going to embrace it and we're not going to talk about it. And that's when we have issues when, all of a sudden and it usually happens this way, judy all of a sudden something has happened medically and now we're in a scramble and, you know, mom or dad had a heart attack or a stroke and they can't take care of themselves anymore, and we have no idea what their wishes are. No idea. We've never had a casual, lighthearted, laughing conversation about what happens, if or when this event happens, and they're they're deer in the headlights. And now, with the event that's happened to mom and dad, the emotions are just higher than a kite. And now we have very little room for a logical, loving process of making decisions. And so I I really encourage people to have these conversations.

Speaker 3: 13:04

Um, I remember starting the conversations with my parents when they were in their 60s, early 70s. Just like you know, dad, we've got history in your family of XYZ disease process. If this happens, what can I do? And sometimes we had the conversation as we were walking through my grandparents' life. It was grandpa and grandma are doing this right now. Dad, are you going to do that? Dad, come on when it's time to give up the keys. Can I just say, dad, trust me, it's time to give up the keys or are you going to fight me on this? And so we had lighthearted conversations before they were heartfelt before they were reality in our own life, and that was huge. But my I come from a family that talks about these kinds of things all the time you are, so lucky you are so lucky us to have that, because a lot of families don't.

Speaker 2: 13:58

Mine didn't yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:00

Most, most families do not talk about this next chapter. And in our culture, the American culture, we are so spread out, we're so independent, we don't think about multi-generational living in the same house. We don't think about what are my aged parents going to do? I live in New York and they're in Seattle. What?

Speaker 2: 14:23

do I do, you know? I know in many of the instances that I've run into and really in my own life, we were spread out like that and I ended up bringing my parents here sort of as a last resort. They were not happy about that, but yeah, it's so important to have these conversations. What happens when you because when there are multiple children in the family and they all have ideas about how things can go and they don't necessarily all approve of the same idea how do you deal with that?

Speaker 3: 15:07

If there are this is one of the beginning questions I ask whoever is going to be involved in giving an opinion or helping make a decision? They need to be involved in all conversations. So if there's five kids and all five of you have different ideas thankful for Zoom, now we can have meetings where everybody is, everybody you know wherever they're at, and they all need to be involved in a conversation. I'm pretty I mean, after 25 years I figured out that's a pretty non-negotiable piece for me. I understand schedules, I understand you know personalities and whatnot, but I do make it a pretty pointed requirement. I'm almost going to say that you need to gather the information at the same time so that you can all hear the same questions, you can all hear the same concerns, you can all talk about the memories from your perspective. Or when you go to visit your parents, you're going to have different interaction with your parents as my dad was aging and going through the process of Lewy body, dementia and Parkinson's.

Speaker 3: 16:18

Myself and my two siblings had very different pictures of who dad was and we cared for him at home and my brother would say to me Daphne, dad is fine and he, you know, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't have any of these moments of confusion that you do with him or dad's just easygoing. And then my other sister will say you know, dad and I, we just sit and talk about stories, just stories, and I don't have to help him with anything. You know, even I don't think I've ever even taken him to the bathroom, even I don't think I've ever even taken him to the bathroom, and me as the oldest child in the house and all of us having our different relationship, dad, let loose with me.

Speaker 3: 17:03

He got to relax with me and I got to see the confusion. I got to see him wanting to be independent, right down to the point of one day he's got his foot on the side of a front wheel walker, on the gray walker, and not on even on the front, but on the side rail. He has his foot up there and he's trying to tie his shoe. Now, remember, he has Parkinson's, he's very poor with balance, and I said to dad I said, dad, let me help you with your shoe. No, I can do it, I can do it, I can do it. I got all the pushback in the world and finally I just had to say to my dad on my watch, you're not going to fall, so please sit down and let me help you with your shoe. Or at least sit down and you can tie your shoe or put your foot on my knee, you know, so that you can get to your shoelaces.

Speaker 3: 17:57

We all had a different relationship Within families. We're going to see things differently and the relationship is going to allow for different things to be revealed, particularly with cognitive issues. It can be very tricky. Seeing someone in the morning is different than visiting somebody in the afternoon or the evening if there's any kind of cognition issues. Did they just eat and they're sleepy now and you visit mom and all she does is sleep. Every time I go over there she's sleeping all the time. Well, what time of day are you going? There's variables and that a placement person such as myself can help guide through the things that you may not even think about. It might be the vibrato of somebody's personality. Type is very independent, and I'm matriarchal or patriarchal and I run the house and no way are my kids going to know that I'm slipping.

Speaker 1: 18:51

Hey, I can attest to what you're saying, daphne. I've said it on the podcast before. I've been through numerous changes with both my mom and dad and then now just my mom. But I'm going to say this to all the seniors If you love your children, you will make a plan with them, because we didn't, and my parents were really good about a will and money and things like that, but we didn't have a plan for when they started to decline and we came into the situation where they had to make a change. That transition was really difficult. We were making decisions on the fly, we didn't have any information. Thank God we found a person like you, daphne. They were our guardian angel. Highly recommend you bring in a senior advisor and then make a plan for the future. That will really really, if you love your kids, it will help them and it'll make a better experience for you. So let's talk about Daphne. How are you compensated for all this time?

Speaker 3: 20:03

So I'm paid very much like you are paid as a realtor. I use your example a lot. I am not paid by families. My services are virtually free to the families, but I'm paid by the communities of care and so I'm an extension of communities marketing department. Part of that has happened. If you think about the logistics of being in a hospital or a rehab facility or nursing home, that to have all the communities of care go into those facilities and drop everyone's day would be inundating, it would be overwhelming. And so I act as a liaison between the communities of health care and the communities of housing and supportive care and I bring the two together. And so we have in the state of Washington and I would say nationwide now, have set up this protocol of they from their marketing department pay me.

Speaker 3: 21:05

So sometimes people are like so is my cost of care going to go up because I'm using Daphne? And there might be some occasions where that happens, but when you work with Daphne that's not going to happen. I am very, very aware of ethical practices and non-ethical practices. I'm aware of making sure that our elder population does not suffer the consequences of having services for them, and so that's something for you to be aware of. It's a good question to ask. I will say to you, in the 25 years that I have been doing this business, I am very forthright with my communities of care. That says the conversation about cost of my services happens between you and I. That is not a transaction between the client and you. There's no connection there. It's you and I. So it's a very good question about that.

Speaker 3: 22:04

Also, I want to point out that I work with all people who need care, whether they're what we call a private pay client or a Medicaid client. What we call a private pay client or a Medicaid client In all states you cannot charge for your services with federally funded monies Medicaid so that's pro bono work. There are some people, particularly in our state that I am aware of me, will charge a consulting fee to help people with Medicaid and it'll be an hourly basis type of thing, and then that money has to come from any place except the client's estate. So there is that caveat that that can happen. It doesn't happen very often. It's just a slippery slope. So I want you to be aware of that as the consumer. Just a slippery slope. So I want you to be aware of that as the consumer, that people who have a limited funding or their estate is such that they may outlive it. We can actually help you as well.

Speaker 1: 23:03

Let's talk a little bit about that, because my mother is getting to this point where all that money my parents saved for decades is running out and she has gone into a community that has a buy-in. Can you explain that to our listeners and viewers?

Speaker 3: 23:20

So a community that has a buy-in is generally referred to as a CCRC, a continuing care retirement community. I don't know if that's what your parents are in, but when there's a buy-in are in, but when there's a buy-in they should have some kind of clause about how they will be able to care for your parents after their estate has been exhausted. And I'm not really well-versed in CCRCs. What I can speak to with clarity and assurance is assisted livings, independent living, memory care and adult family homes, and one of my highest values, if you remember, is for people not to move again, and so we do need to financially prepare for that, and so in most situations, there's a time period that we call a spend down, or you need to fund your care and housing privately for a certain amount of time, and usually in Washington that's two to three years.

Speaker 3: 24:20

There are exceptions to having two to three years of private funding, but that's the general guideline to use. After that time, let's say that someone has 24 months of private pay, based on whatever their monthly care is, and then they're going to be without money. Now we have to have an arrangement and an agreement that they will convert to a Medicaid funding, and some places will convert to Medicaid funding and some will not. In Washington, most assisted livings and memory care will not convert to Medicaid. There are only a handful that will, so that's an important piece in the planning. Adult family homes are much more flexible in terms of being able to work with the finances and the estate planning of a family. Assisted livings not so much.

Speaker 2: 25:17

That's really sad.

Speaker 3: 25:20

Yeah, there are some. You know there are some companies that do. I can think of one or two assisted livings that will take Medicaid from day one, and I'm thinking of the three counties, Snohomish, King and Pierce County. One, two, three or four companies maximum. There's very, very few. There are some assisted livings that will do a two or three year spend down and then it's on the caveat of they either have a given number of Medicaid beds and so if there's not a Medicaid bed available you are out of luck. So usually, let's say there's a building of a hundred units, maybe there'll be 10 Medicaid beds, and is there a waiting list for those? I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 26:11

A waiting list for those those, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 26:19

A waiting list for those. A waiting list is an interesting way to think about that because it's ever changing. And if someone is in an assisted living community and they've given notice that says, you know, in three months my mom's not going to have any money to pay for her monthly bill, then the assisted living needs to look at their situation, their finances and availability and they may say you know what? We're not anticipating anything for a year. All of our Medicaid beds are full and they're healthy. We're not expecting anything. Excuse me, medicaid beds, not Medicare Medicaid beds, they're not expecting any change. You will have to find another place to live. It's sad, and so that's another piece of making sure that you have somebody who is watching out for you.

Speaker 3: 27:08

Now, this, this please hear my heart, but sometimes there are disease processes that are in place that we have to factor in. We have to have conversations with healthcare people and whatnot, to be able to kind of take our crystal ball as best we can to help in planning. But you have to be realistic. One of the things that I see a lot is particularly with fall risk, when someone is either arthritic or they have some kind of balance issue going on. You know something is off, and if they're a high fall risk, that is something to pay attention to for tomorrow. They're a high fall risk. That is something to pay attention to for tomorrow, because there's a lot of communities that can't help people when they need to have a two person, what we call a two person transfer. You can't be transferred by one person. You can't be helped out of your bed to your wheelchair with just one person any longer and you would have to move.

Speaker 2: 28:13

Oh, no, oh wow.

Speaker 3: 28:14

Yeah, so there's a lot to learn. There's plenty of places that can do two person transfers, but there's many that don't, and so that's a part of those questions that you, as a consumer, may not think to ask, and so that's where a senior advisor such as myself can make sure that we're looking at the whole picture and we're guiding you for success to your last breath, based on your highest values. Now some people say to me Daphne, I'm doing just fine right now. Yes, I have Parkinson's. Yes, it's progressive. Yes, I may not be able to swallow. Yes, I may not be able to walk properly.

Speaker 3: 28:55

So I'm still going on outings and I'm still living life as fully as I can, but I need to have support around me. I'm not going to cook anymore. I need help with my med management, but I still want to do activities. There's a clear choice there that they say, yep, I want to live in an assisted living with a plethora of activities throughout the day. That's my personality, and if and when it comes that I can't live there anymore, I'm ready to move, and that's a conversation that I have too. It's. Everyone is unique.

Speaker 1: 29:30

Everyone gets to say what do I want to have my next chapter of life look like?

Speaker 3: 29:33

But it's not a conversation about now it's about the future, am I correct? Yeah, yeah, be able to talk about and I call it the elephant in the room. Everything's going to happen to Joe down the street. It's not going to happen to me. You know I'm. My parents lived to be 90 years old. You know, we've got longevity in our home and no dementia, no strokes, no heart history. I'm good, sorry, you need to think about it. At least have the conversation that says if this happens, what do I want to do, what are my highest values and my wishes? Because we do not know what the future brings not know what the future brings.

Speaker 2: 30:19

What about people who are just literally living on social security? They don't have a tremendous amount of savings. What happens with them?

Speaker 3: 30:24

So usually people that have limited personal resources have to tap into Medicaid right away and there are financial guidelines that they have to meet and physical guidelines that they have to tap into Medicaid right away. And there are financial guidelines that they have to meet and physical guidelines that they have to meet to be able to have Medicaid as the funding source for their care and housing. Usually in my world, usually those people are going to live in an adult family home, and the state of Washington has about 4,600 adult family homes in it statewide and a lot of them will work with Medicaid. Many of them choose to work with Medicaid. That's where their heart is and, you know, want to make sure that everyone is taken care of, no matter what their financial situation is, so everyone gets care.

Speaker 3: 31:16

Usually I have to have conversations about some areas of compromise. Sometimes that might be location. It might be the difference between, in an adult family home, sharing a room or having a private room. It might be the difference of, you know, do I have lots of elbow room? Is there two living rooms in the home that I can have my own space, or is there just one? So sometimes there's some practical decisions that have to be made in terms of where we make compromises.

Speaker 1: 31:51

How about if we?

Speaker 3: 31:52

all sleep here though.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Pardon me.

Speaker 3: 32:14

How about if we all need care, though, pardon me, can sometimes be very challenging, and that's usually the time the first 60 days is usually the time that people say, oh my gosh, I made the wrong decision for mom and I'm like, hold on, let's talk about this, tell me what's going on, and then I help the family adjust, the elder adjust, the community adjust. I help with communication so that we're not talking over each other and we truly find out that my mom wants to have tea every morning for breakfast. Quit asking her if she wants tea or coffee. She wants tea. Remember it. Put a big sign here, because sometimes that can make all the difference in the world. Dennis, you're laughing like you might have experienced this.

Speaker 1: 32:50

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 32:52

I mean, it's just the little things of life can make the difference, um, of of how we transition into someplace new. I don't want to give up. I make my tea this way and I know exactly the timing of when it's cool enough for me to drink, and now I don't even get my teeth, and so I'm going to have a little tantrum about it. It happens. It happens. So when a senior advisor is asking these silly questions, they're not silly, they're really important. Yeah, yeah, everyone's life is different. Everybody has different triggers. We may not even know the triggers till someone has moved, and so that's where you carry on the conversations. Um, I follow up at least up to 60 days, if not longer to make sure that things are going okay.

Speaker 3: 33:48

Post-placement advising going on yes, yes, very much so I talk to the family, I very much so I talk to the family, I visit the client and I talk to the community of care, and so I make sure that I'm not missing anything, because I don't want them to move again.

Speaker 2: 34:04

Well, I was just wondering when you come across a family, you come across someone who has issues with cognitive ability and their families, and maybe they cannot make these decisions for themselves anymore. How does that work?

Speaker 3: 34:24

Judy, you brought up probably the number one thing that I talk about with families when I get to them, and I talk about this with people casually, my circle of friends Do you have a power of attorney?

Speaker 3: 34:35

Have you written up paperwork in the event that you cannot speak for yourself, that someone else you have chosen as, as senior, you've chosen someone to speak for you, that you trust someone, as you're still living, to speak for you in terms of what you would want to have happen if you have a stroke or if you have dementia and it's advanced to the place where logic is not possible or rarely possible, if you don't have power of attorney paperwork, there is a natural order that things go in.

Speaker 3: 35:11

If you're married to someone, it's the husband who's having some challenges physically or cognitively. The natural person falls to the wife, and that's without paperwork. If the wife is not available, it will go to children, and so there is a lineage of how things are taken care of. It's not easy and it certainly doesn't help in banking situations and all of that, but to have a power of attorney allows you to know that your medical decisions and financial decisions can be made and executed while you're still alive, I think that and executed is huge because a lot of different services can't work with people that have issues with cognitive ability.

Speaker 2: 36:12

I mean, there are laws involved that don't allow it.

Speaker 3: 36:15

Yeah, yeah, it's really good to check in with um, even to have a consultation with an attorney. I mean, everyone's um estates are not complicated and you might have one you know child in your life and so it's clearly who's going to be your power of attorney. But take care of it, just have it, have it done. You can change it at any time, but have something in place. Otherwise it's the state of Washington steps in and guardianship starts to be talked about and you start losing your ability to make choice. And the courts are good about, you know, implementing someone who is a family member, a long-term friend, but nonetheless it's an added step that's going to delay care, it's going to delay processes.

Speaker 2: 37:03

And fees involved in that too right. Once it gets guardianship, the guardian is normally paid for their services. Yes, they're not paid, not for free. So that's money out of your estate that you might need.

Speaker 3: 37:17

So, yeah, this is um a conversation that I I get pretty pointed with, even with people who are clear thinkers and I'll use the word little obstinate or very independent. Um, don't want my kids to know anything that's going on, don't want them involved, that you will most likely pay the price in some way of not having some open communication.

Speaker 1: 37:44

Yeah, Daphne. Have you ever experienced a situation where someone is unwilling to move or make this difficult transition and they are kicking and screaming and say, no, I'm going to die in my home. What do you do?

Speaker 3: 38:14

Happens all the time, it's not uncommon. Here's a sticky wicket. Everyone has the right to make their own choices, and the old saying of you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink applies here. Someone has the right to say I'm staying in my home and I'm going out, as my grandpa said, feet first in a pine box. You know, this is. They have the right to do that. And then the family can say OK, dad, can we compromise? Mom, can we compromise? Can I have somebody come in and at least make sure that you've got three meals a day? You're not eating at all. And so then you have to have some of that conversation and we might be able to look at in-home care.

Speaker 3: 38:55

Usually, what happens is that people don't want other people in their home and they don't want to pay the price of in-home care. It is a good stop gap. In-home care serves a really good service. Good stopgap in-home care serves a really good service, but it's usually cost prohibitive long term. If you're thinking about 24 hour care, seven days a week. To compare the two is, living outside of your home is 50 percent less than in-home care, just in the cost of the care. So and I'm saying that just generally, but generally, that's true, it's, it's. I think I have to harken back to. It's important to have these conversations to just say, dad, you know, I know you want to be here, I know you want to be on the farm forever and ever. I know that you don't want to, you know into the city, whatever it is, but but you have to help me. I have a responsibility to you and I don't want to see you suffering either, and so having these conversations ahead of time can help.

Speaker 3: 40:02

Usually, dennis, what I see is some of that resistance comes through cognitive challenges, or sometimes there's mental illness involved, and that's usually when I see it. Most often, once I get involved with someone, I'm able to build enough rapport that they can see the other side of the coin, that they can see oh, I see how my kids are feeling and I talk a lot about you know this being a gift. You can give this gift to your kids and this is what they can do for you Because, dennis, just in the little bit that you've shared today, I can see that you understand the gift of having a conversation and having a plan, the gift of having conversation and having a plan, and it keeps relationships healthy. It keeps them right size, as they should be, between a mother and a daughter and a son, or a father and his you know son or daughter, and we don't get it messy by someone becoming a caregiver and becoming the boss. Did you take your medicine? You have to drink more water. You're getting, you know, urinary tract infections because you're not drinking water. I don't like water, I don't want to drink water. It makes me get up and have to go to the bathroom more often and that's just too much work and I can't do it.

Speaker 3: 41:22

Mom or dad, this is exactly why we're having this conversation. Your quality of life doesn't have to suffer because you want to stay in your home. Yes, it will be different. Yes, it's not home, but let's have someone help us to figure out where we can meet your highest values.

Speaker 3: 41:42

Think through, dad, what is it that you really don't want to give up? And most often it's not said. But it comes down to change. People are afraid of change. I know the devil, I know, yeah, and so it really does become an emotional journey, and it's never too early to contact someone like me Two years down the road. I mean someone that can help facilitate a conversation that's healthy between your family. I'm happy to do that all day long and then when the time comes if it comes and it's two, three years down the road give me a call and I'm happy to step in and facilitate the next steps. But the conversations are the most important piece and our culture doesn't support that. We don't naturally do those things. No other cultures are much better at it than we are and consequently we have caregivers, usually from other cultures, not born and raised Americans because they had that generation?

Speaker 2: 42:51

Yeah, I never thought. I lived in Japan for a couple of years, and it was just a given that. You know, at that point in time I don't know if it's still true it was the oldest son that would inherit the house, and mom and dad came with it. You know, yep, so it was just the way it was going to be.

Speaker 3: 43:08

So it's common in cultures. I mean, in the Romanian culture it's the youngest, because they're the most vibrant. The youngest inherits the home and mom and dad, but we don't have those conversations. We don't even have a mechanism to have those conversations, because we're all over the United States. Our culture is very different all over the United States.

Speaker 2: 43:33

Our culture is very different. Well, so what can we do as realtors when we're coming into a situation where people are trying to decide what they're going to do when they downsize? You know, everybody just wants to move to their own private, smaller, home. What can we do to help them make the best decisions for themselves?

Speaker 3: 43:50

How can we, I think from my perspective and this is just my microcosm anyone who's helping seniors and anytime you're engaged in a conversation with people who provide services to seniors needs to be looking at the long game. The immediacy is great. Let me put a bandage on this. Let me solve the problem. That's today, but often what I'm seeing is that there isn't a long-term picture taken in terms of how can we maximize someone's estate, how can we maximize the buying power of their estate, and so, as realtors, I would say that's an important piece. Along the same line comes you being able to build rapport that says I'm looking out for you for today and tomorrow, I'm here for the long term, and though it sounds enticing to sell the home that you bought for $300,000 and now it's worth a million, it might not be the right time to actually sell it, but maybe look at other ways to have you stay in your home longer and look at other financial ways. Talk to a financial planner that can help you maximize the buying power of your estate, and I bring that up in terms of in the state of Washington, there's a five-year look back for all financial transactions that have happened with your personal estate, and so that can come into some of the Medicaid planning, the long-term planning, and so that's a piece that is really important that very few people talk about. On the flip side of that, though, be sure not to cut off your nose, to spite your face and not have funding available to have choices.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Everyone should have choice and quality of life, and we're quickly moving out of the generation of people who have a high value of leaving something for their kids. Financially, we're coming to the end of that. The next generation doesn't have that value built in, and so sometimes we can have a conversation that says, but mom and dad, that's your money and you need to have the care that you deserve. I'm fine, don't worry about me. Oh, no, no, no, that's my responsibility, set you up. Sometimes we get into that. So it's finding people as a consumer. It's finding people that you know are looking out for you in the long term, not the quick buck, not the immediate bandage, but how do we look at this? As a journey, and so realtors are in a great position to be able to set that up and to build that rapport and trust that says you know that person didn't sell my house right away and make a commission. They advised me to do this and figure out what I'm supposed to do. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:48

Describe us. Judy, I think so yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:53

I think it does.

Speaker 1: 46:54

It's the long game.

Speaker 3: 46:55

Yeah, the long game is where it's at. I mean, I don't know where that magic number is, but at some point. I mean, obviously we all know economics. The earlier you start in financial planning, the less money you need, the more time you have we get all that. But there comes a time when you're just like, oh, reality is right here, I need to pay attention to this, and that's different for everybody. But when you start feeling that, as a consumer, pay attention to it and find the people that you know you can trust.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Explain to our listeners, if you can, what seniors are feeling when it is time to make this life-changing transition.

Speaker 3: 47:39

So I can draw from my anecdotal stories of my years of experience. But a common thread that I would say that I feel right now in the time of change is the first thing I hear is I don't want to be a burden to my kids. I hear that all the time and it's I don't want to talk about it. I think that's why the conversations aren't held that you know my hips are not moving like they used to. I can't just decide to walk down three steps and get to the curb and pick up my mail. It's not easy. I'm not going to let my kids know that I don't want to be a burden. So I hear that a lot from the perspective of elders that they don't need to know what's going on in my life. It's just a little ache and pain, it's just a little difference. It's not a big deal. They've got a lot going on. I hear that all the time. The other piece that I hear is on a financial level is it's just going to cost too much. You know, I can push myself through, I can pull myself up, I can make this happen. I'll be careful. I'll pick up the throw rugs on the floor so I won't trip.

Speaker 3: 48:49

I hear is sometimes it's just the reality of our machine, our body, becoming more out. And I think if we can separate ourselves somewhat and say this this body is a machine and I need to give it high octane fuel. Now I'm, you know, 80 plus years old and having sugar and simple carbohydrates isn't going to fuel it anymore. I need to have some help in knowing what good nutrition is. Or, yes, you know I've heard over and over you need to drink water. Water is the elixir of life. This it truly is. Somehow get your water in, you Embrace it that these are things that this machine needs. Now it's like your car, you know you have to make sure that you've got enough oil in it and lubricating it, and sometimes you might need a little higher octane gas. You need maintenance. You need to go in and see the mechanic more often on your car. You need to see the mechanic more often on your car. You need to see the doctor more often. I mean, just play with it a little bit and and it's it's life, this is a part of life. Embrace it with with some dignity.

Speaker 3: 50:01

So I hear people resisting aging. I hear seniors talking about being a burden, financial burden. I just don't want anyone to worry about me. And then sometimes not very often, but sometimes I hear a connection to things. I don't want to give up my things and that brings on another whole conversation of how we let those things go. But sometimes that is a motivator for seniors and a really strong feeling that can be debilitating Once a senior advisor can talk about these things and bring them to the forefront. My experience is when you name something, it loses its power. When you name it out loud and you're with your family and you're all talking about the same thing, it will lose its power. Talk about it, talk about whatever that elephant is and if you need somebody to help you find that person.

Speaker 1: 51:00

What resources do seniors and their families have that can help them make this move?

Speaker 3: 51:07

We have a pretty sophisticated service umbrella and I don't want to make light of this at all, but you've all heard the term of the silver tsunami and so there are lots of people in our entrepreneurial spirit in America. There are lots of people who have figured out different services to help people. So there's a plethora of services and I'm sure you've talked about these on your podcast here. You know, from the moving, the downizing, the how do I get rid of things? How do I find a financial planner that can help me? But financially, there's also some resources that people don't know about, and a big one is called aid and attendance, and that's through the VA. If you served during wartime and you did not have to be out of country, you know. But if you served during wartime and had an honorable discharge that qualifies you to explore, do you have any funds from aid and attendance? And this is a source of funding from, like I said, va. That is good for the veteran and their spouse and there's a financial qualification to it as well.

Speaker 2: 52:26

What about after the veteran has passed on, still available for the spouse?

Speaker 3: 52:32

Wow, yep. Yeah, a lot of people don't know that Right now and it changes every year, but right now, approximately the benefit is usually and there's a range here depending upon your needs and all of that but usually it's around $2,300 per month for the veteran and about $1,300 or $1,400 for the spouse.

Speaker 2: 52:55

Is that over and above, like Social Security and other things like that? And you say a lot of people don't realize that they have no idea.

Speaker 3: 53:03

Even people within the VA system don't know. So it's been around for years and years, and years. But you know, as you know, our Department of Defense is huge, VA is huge and sometimes they don't all get the same memos. But this is an area that is overlooked a lot. You do have to have a financial qualification for it and I think currently don't quote me, but I think it's right around $120,000 or less you have to have in your estate before you will financially qualify for it.

Speaker 2: 53:33

And how? Where would they go to get this? Would they reach out?

Speaker 3: 53:38

They can reach out to the VA. Reach out to just VFW posts. They have people that usually know about how to do that. I'm just going to VFW posts. They have people that usually know about how to do that. There are some companies that know how to apply for that. There are financial advisors that know about that. There are specific companies specifically just for aid and attendance. So it's again just a place that you would tap into senior services and see where you can navigate to getting to the right people to help you. I do recommend not applying for yourself. You can go online and get all those applications for aid and attendance, but I would not do it yourself. Currently it's taking about oh, I would say, four to six months to process that paperwork Ten years ago.